tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post470743565554774168..comments2023-05-22T04:12:10.304-07:00Comments on Secret Recipes: Dehydration and other ultrarunning hazardsLisa Bhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05211264404643329514noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-40809264484821877092011-04-21T07:10:31.829-07:002011-04-21T07:10:31.829-07:00thank you very much for the report. I am actually...thank you very much for the report. I am actually going for my 2nd 50 miler at bishop, first one i DNF at the AR50, so i appreciate the detail and the report. thank you so much and i hope you are still running the trails wellAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13894397895811168927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-78225068265774318202011-04-21T07:09:48.986-07:002011-04-21T07:09:48.986-07:00thanks for the great race report. I am actually g...thanks for the great race report. I am actually going to try my second 50 mielr this year, first was DNF and i enjoyed your reportAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13894397895811168927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-26872672515636708622007-07-25T07:15:00.000-07:002007-07-25T07:15:00.000-07:00Congratulations on Badwater - Unreal effort.Congratulations on Badwater - Unreal effort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-4085166579857765922007-06-28T16:05:00.000-07:002007-06-28T16:05:00.000-07:00Lisa, I have a client (I am an ART Provider) who i...Lisa, <BR/><BR/>I have a client (I am an ART Provider) who is an ultra-marathoner, and I am concerned that she is in a chronic state of dehydration. <BR/><BR/>She drinks hardly any fluids, and when she does, she retains the fluid.<BR/><BR/>Where would be a good place for her start getting this checked out?<BR/><BR/>Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-76361354354106295292007-05-26T15:52:00.000-07:002007-05-26T15:52:00.000-07:00Lisa,I was so relieved to read your blog. The Bis...Lisa,<BR/>I was so relieved to read your blog. The Bishop 50k was my first ultra and experienced all the symptoms you described. I asked a couple of experienced runners at the finish and they hadn't heard of the symptoms I was having. I used to work as a wildland firefighter and worked in lots of extreme heat and shifts as long as 36 hours w/o ever having those symptoms. The only thing I could think of was that I drank too much Heed and not enough water during the event (water tasted so swampy). I still don't understand this rhabdo thing, but maybe I can find a local sports med doc to explain how to avoid it in the future. Thanks for the postAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-7035294769260217412007-05-23T08:24:00.000-07:002007-05-23T08:24:00.000-07:00Tim - I think you situation was similar to mine in...Tim - I think you situation was similar to mine in that the rhabdo was not all that severe but that your kidneys weren't flushing out the fluids. There was dehydration and probably also an element of ADH (the anti-diuretic hormone released during stress and heat that tells the kidneys to hold fluids and not to pee).Lisa Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211264404643329514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-55571697871030302072007-05-23T08:22:00.000-07:002007-05-23T08:22:00.000-07:00Viper, the more I learn the more I realize that ul...Viper, the more I learn the more I realize that ultrarunning is not all that great for our bodies. Sorry, everybody, but it falls in the category of "extreme." But that's what we all LOVE about ultras too - how extreme they are. And that's what I love about them too. <BR/><BR/>One of these days I should make a list of all the lab abnormalities we see from ultras. (One of the reasons I tested my thyroid is that post-ultra it can't be screwed up, as can many other hormones...testoterone included.) I'm amazed at how much this kind of stress can screw up the body. The good news is that it all comes back to normal. And also, to a large extent, the body adapts, and adapts very well considering the enormity of what we are doing. <BR/><BR/>I could also, of course, make a long list of the benefits of ultrarunning...but almost everything on that list would be mental or psychological or social benefits, not physical. And those are the reasons I run ultras.<BR/><BR/>Staying safe is paramount. We all have families and friends that love and need us.<BR/><BR/>Being sore afterwards is "normal," and the body does adapts with time. The kidneys need to stay flushed and fluids are critical in the heat and for our recovery. Just keep the kidneys flushing and you'll be fine. Eat salty foods or drink gatorade or pedialyte or similar with post-race rehydration.<BR/><BR/>...Them my thoughts on the "benefits" of ultrarunning. :)Lisa Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211264404643329514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-51426284719414611542007-05-22T22:17:00.000-07:002007-05-22T22:17:00.000-07:00Lisa,This post scared me silly. I ran this race an...Lisa,<BR/><BR/>This post scared me silly. I ran this race and I know more about nuclear science than I do about the things you mentioned. I guess if I'm going to continue, I had better pay attention. <BR/><BR/>My post-race consisted of being mostly incoherent. Too chicken to do IVs and my pee was like syrup. No cramping, a lot of soreness, and I can just imagine my labs would have looked like an ER situation.<BR/><BR/>Ignorance was bliss. My kidneys likely hate me now.Viperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07630008924317857925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-41805265993422768182007-05-22T20:17:00.000-07:002007-05-22T20:17:00.000-07:00I wonder if your lack of sleep the night before co...I wonder if your lack of sleep the night before could have added to your condition. I don't remember being sore at BW 2005 when I dropped from Rhabdo. I felt pretty good(except for the blisters). Glad your feeling better.timkjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09077884101401693278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-68537761686756139132007-05-22T19:49:00.000-07:002007-05-22T19:49:00.000-07:00and thanks Olga and Bob, my biggest cheerleaders! ...and thanks Olga and Bob, my biggest cheerleaders! :)Lisa Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211264404643329514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-14752956046696773762007-05-22T19:48:00.000-07:002007-05-22T19:48:00.000-07:00Hi Steve - Not sure why I never got sore. Muscle...Hi Steve - Not sure why I never got sore. Muscle soreness is a symptoms of Rhabdo. I can only guess that the Rhabdo really wasn't all that bad, but it LOOKED bad (urine color) because of the dehydration. I do think the IV's helped though.<BR/><BR/>Hi Marshall - I'm looking forward to seeing you too. Kari and I were talking about how "easy" you are to crew at Badwater. She had some great stories to tell (doesn't she always??). I just love her! See you there!<BR/><BR/>Kendra - you are too funny! Yes, no more bad water. And bring on Badwater!<BR/><BR/>George - I may or may not have had some ADH action. I don't think so, but in any case, it was definitely not the main problem. I was dehydrated, not abnormally retaining fluids.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, Kelly. Rhabdo is very very common at ultras. It's just that sometimes it causes problems. Dehydration puts us at risk for problems with the kidneys. As you know, at its worse, it can cause acute renal failure and require dialysis for treatment. That can happen if there is not adequate hydration.<BR/>...but you know all that. Hope your training for WS is going well. I will see you there. I am pacing. Whew, just 4 weeks away!<BR/><BR/>Michelle - The medical personnel at WS are among the best. Eric will be in good hands with them and you! Just keep his weight relatively level, no more than decreased by 2%, for optimal hydration. He's an experienced runner; he should be fine!Lisa Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211264404643329514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-20472038816855027732007-05-22T19:16:00.000-07:002007-05-22T19:16:00.000-07:00Lisa,I've never read a race report quite like your...Lisa,<BR/>I've never read a race report quite like yours! I'm glad you are okay and not sore at all. That's awesome!<BR/><BR/>So...as Eric's crew at WS and a non-medical person as well...I'm not quite sure what I got from your report. I guess every person is different, so maybe it doesn't really cross over. And there will be medical people looking at all that stuff and asking the right questions...right?Backofpackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13779487553272296752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-80052741729608391382007-05-22T16:40:00.000-07:002007-05-22T16:40:00.000-07:00Lisa, great race report and I am so glad that you ...Lisa, great race report and I am so glad that you are recovering so nicely. I'm glad that the rhabdo didn't get out of hand. Take it easy and you will be ready and strong for Badwater!kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08838103329838184258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-16886345980811844102007-05-22T15:14:00.000-07:002007-05-22T15:14:00.000-07:00Lisa,I'm going to have to read this post over anot...Lisa,<BR/>I'm going to have to read this post over another dozen times to make sure it sinks in. There are SO many variables when running long and I have so few brain cells left to process all of the possibilities let alone REMEMBER them at mile 50! You didn't mention anything about ADH though. Could that have helped put you over the "dehydration edge" too?<BR/>(~: GeorgeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-61260469923049375572007-05-22T15:12:00.000-07:002007-05-22T15:12:00.000-07:00I'm so glad you're okay! Better than okay, even! S...I'm so glad you're okay! Better than okay, even! So you got your "bad water" experience out of the way before Badwater. Sorry, that was bad. >:) Glad you're back safe 'n sound, dear.Kendra Ralstinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12416031411297493723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-35711197105305956242007-05-22T14:02:00.000-07:002007-05-22T14:02:00.000-07:00Lisa, glad to hear you got some fluids in you. I ...Lisa, glad to hear you got some fluids in you. I look forward to hanging out with you in the big valley. Take care of yourself, I know you will.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-68995819901107115982007-05-22T09:25:00.000-07:002007-05-22T09:25:00.000-07:00What a great post. While each of us is definitely ...What a great post. While each of us is definitely an "experiment of one", few of us are qualified to perform the sort of scientific analysis to learn from that experiment on such a deep level. Thanks for sharing all of your expertise. By the way, what do you think is responsible for the lack of expected soreness? Could it be the fluids you received post race? Anyway, good luck with Badwater training!Steve Ansellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18107967737535707878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-31796571486447764122007-05-22T07:29:00.000-07:002007-05-22T07:29:00.000-07:00you had me at "HELLO" umm I mean "rhabdomyolysis" ...you had me at "HELLO" umm I mean "rhabdomyolysis" - nothing like a sexy, smart ultra runner to get me moving in the morning-lol<BR/><BR/>SO glad ur feeling better hun & have a pretty good feel of what happened...<BR/><BR/>Death Valley training will be helpful for u to focus more on ur fluids... looks like the climate conditions from Bishop snuck up on ya :-( <BR/><BR/>Have a great recovery week!!Bob - BlogMYruns.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08529878931334675228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2910834114247290288.post-24388844734856631082007-05-22T07:09:00.000-07:002007-05-22T07:09:00.000-07:00Lisa, so glad you are fine and kicking!!! What a p...Lisa, so glad you are fine and kicking!!! What a post, like reading a med textbook:) Good run no matter what, you got your goals down and survived the heat, the altitude, the distance and the ankle. Ready and counting now!Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00493291972954387932noreply@blogger.com